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What news of the metadata?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 29th 17, 02:22 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,505
Default What news of the metadata?

My wbie I player app is still telling me 404 nott found or no data
available. Have they put up any indication of what they are doing at the
Beeb, they must surely realise that disabled users use this data?
Brian

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  #2  
Old April 29th 17, 06:10 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Pete Forman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default What news of the metadata?

"Brian Gaff" writes:

My wbie I player app is still telling me 404 nott found or no data
available. Have they put up any indication of what they are doing at
the Beeb, they must surely realise that disabled users use this data?


The XML, RDF and ICS feeds of metadata have been permanently removed by
the BBC. I use get_iplayer and that is being adapted to use the JSON
feed instead. Before I started with get_iplayer I wrote a parser to
scrape programme information from the HTML, I might dust that down.

Looking at raw feeds in a browser for, e.g. News Quiz on Radio 4,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08n4lkl.xml displays the BBC
announcement. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08n4lkl.json has
programme metadata.


Here is the BBC announcement:

Maintenance mode

From April 18, 2017, the BBC is no longer able to offer XML, RDF and
iCalendar (.ics) views of programme metadata from this location.

Work is underway in some areas of the BBC with a view to providing a
durable successor to the decommissioned data views, and when the shape
of this work is known, suitable communications will be put in place to
direct the wider technology community towards that successor.

Until that time, it is possible to offer JSON views of many metadata
aggregations from 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes', but these views
cannot, unfortunately, include those of TV channel and radio station
schedules, or A-Z or genre and format listings for a channel or station.

The remaining JSON feeds will remain in operation until May 1, 2018.

To expend new development effort on maintaining the decommissioned views
would significantly threaten the future existence of the BBC's
responsive web offering for programme websites. This includes the
responsive web views of schedules for all of the BBC’s broadcast
services (listed at http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes#services), which
continue to be available.

Additionally - and this won't concern all users of data views, but may
need some clarity - we would like to point out that no provision of
metadata feeds from the BBC constitutes an implicit or explicit licence
to download rights-controlled digital media content for indefinite
retention by the downloader.

The Charter under which the BBC operates has, for many years, required
it to commission a proportion of its content from commercial suppliers.
Additionally, it engages independent performers and other contributors
to certain programmes (including those produced by the BBC itself),
according to commercial terms. All of the resulting agreements set
limitations on the availability of the programmes online. It is not
possible for the BBC to selectively ignore or to abrogate these
obligations.


--
Pete Forman
https://payg-petef.rhcloud.com
  #3  
Old April 29th 17, 08:16 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,003
Default What news of the metadata?

"Pete Forman" wrote in message
...
Here is the BBC announcement:

Maintenance mode

From April 18, 2017, the BBC is no longer able to offer XML, RDF and
iCalendar (.ics) views of programme metadata from this location.

Work is underway in some areas of the BBC with a view to providing a
durable successor to the decommissioned data views, and when the shape
of this work is known, suitable communications will be put in place to
direct the wider technology community towards that successor.

Until that time, it is possible to offer JSON views of many metadata
aggregations from 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes', but these views
cannot, unfortunately, include those of TV channel and radio station
schedules, or A-Z or genre and format listings for a channel or station.

The remaining JSON feeds will remain in operation until May 1, 2018.


Why did the BBC manage this so spectacularly badly? They should have delayed
decommissioning XML, RDF and ICS until the JSON replacement or any successor
was working properly - first rule of project management, don't pull the plug
on the old until the new is working.

I do wonder how long JSON or the successor to the decommissioned data view
will last before they are also removed, again without a replacement in place
first.

Am I cynical? No, I've seen cock-ups like this so many times.

  #4  
Old April 29th 17, 09:26 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Java Jive[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,641
Default What news of the metadata?

On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 21:16:14 +0100, "NY" wrote:

Why did the BBC manage this so spectacularly badly?


Because they're f*king arrogant.

They should have delayed
decommissioning XML, RDF and ICS until the JSON replacement or any successor
was working properly - first rule of project management, don't pull the plug
on the old until the new is working.


Of course.

I do wonder how long JSON or the successor to the decommissioned data view
will last before they are also removed, again without a replacement in place
first.

Am I cynical? No, I've seen cock-ups like this so many times.


Particularly from the BBC.
--
================================================== ======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
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  #5  
Old April 29th 17, 10:50 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Adrian Caspersz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default What news of the metadata?

On 29/04/17 22:26, Java Jive wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 21:16:14 +0100, "NY" wrote:

Why did the BBC manage this so spectacularly badly?


Because they're f*king arrogant.

They should have delayed
decommissioning XML, RDF and ICS until the JSON replacement or any successor
was working properly - first rule of project management, don't pull the plug
on the old until the new is working.


Of course.

I do wonder how long JSON or the successor to the decommissioned data view
will last before they are also removed, again without a replacement in place
first.

Am I cynical? No, I've seen cock-ups like this so many times.


Particularly from the BBC.


I presume you ignored the last paragraph of the announcement.

--
Adrian C
  #6  
Old April 30th 17, 01:08 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Johnny B Good[_2_]
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Posts: 380
Default What news of the metadata?

On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:10:26 +0100, Pete Forman wrote:

"Brian Gaff" writes:

My wbie I player app is still telling me 404 nott found or no data
available. Have they put up any indication of what they are doing at
the Beeb, they must surely realise that disabled users use this data?


The XML, RDF and ICS feeds of metadata have been permanently removed by
the BBC. I use get_iplayer and that is being adapted to use the JSON
feed instead. Before I started with get_iplayer I wrote a parser to
scrape programme information from the HTML, I might dust that down.

Looking at raw feeds in a browser for, e.g. News Quiz on Radio 4,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08n4lkl.xml displays the BBC
announcement. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08n4lkl.json has
programme metadata.


Here is the BBC announcement:


====snip of the bulk of this 3 day old news====

The Charter under which the BBC operates has, for many years, required
it to commission a proportion of its content from commercial suppliers.
Additionally, it engages independent performers and other contributors
to certain programmes (including those produced by the BBC itself),
according to commercial terms. All of the resulting agreements set
limitations on the availability of the programmes online. It is not
possible for the BBC to selectively ignore or to abrogate these
obligations.


I'm surprised to see my original thread, "iPlayer metadata AWOL again!"
being resurrected three days on from when it mattered.

As I mentioned in my follow up to my OP just 40 minutes later, after
discovering the above announcement via the bookmarked page to https://
squarepenguin.co.uk/ that I finally managed to track down in my
bookmarks list, where I was greeted by a banner headline to the effect
that:

"get_iplayer is currently broken!"

It seems, for the time being (until the gip devs come up with a
solution) that gip is now "broken".

The good news, for those who aren't visually impaired (Sorry Brian), gip
can still be used to download using the "get_iplayer --pid b04fmglh"
command where you copy and paste the pid (in this case, the example pid
shown is for the BBC4 movie "Pioneer") from the Beeb's TV schedule pages.

Gip will complain about the lack of xml sources and pause for several
seconds before downloading the media.ts file, using the pid 'doubled up'
as a substitute file name. This default naming algorithm is handy since
it removes any ambiguity as to the identity of the mp4 media file you are
going to give a more meaningful name to before saving it to your media
server or wherever you normally store such downloads once it has finished
downloading.

I've developed a technique to organise each days list of programmes I
wish to record/download from the iplayer servers which minimises the
renaming effort and lets me keep track of the individual get_iplayer --pid
commands I'm now obliged to utilise.

You can't issue this command with a string of space separated pids and
have gip process them one after the other like you could with the list
numbers. However, perhaps it simply needs a different separator
character, I'd be only too happy to be proved wrong on it not being
possible to feed gip a string of pids with a suitable separator character
in this way (hint).

Since I was previously having to rename the off-air freeview recordings
anyway (the EPG derived names Kaffeine was using didn't quite cut it for
me), I decided to use Kate (a basic Linux word processor) to produce a
simple list of programme names, copied and pasted (and edited with
episode numbers and an 8 digit date coded #yyyymmdd) from the BBC TV
schedules pages from where I could also link to the programme's details
to copy and paste the pid shown in the url [1] onto the end of the
programme name in my PID List document.

Basically, I was concentrating the day's worth of editing programme file
names into one early afternoon session whilst harvesting the pid numbers.
It's a "swings and roundabouts" sort of change spoilt only by the need to
issue --pid commands one at a time rather than in bulk.

As I download each iplayer file, I simply copy and paste my readymade
filename from the list to replace the gobbledygook resulting from the
lack of xml metadata (which wasn't very good to begin with anyway due to
its lack of apostrophes and substituting underlines for spaces).

Prior to this change, I was renaming the Freeview recordings to get rid
of illegal characters such as ":" and "?" and the nonsense "NEW:" prefix
that Kaffeine was picking up from the EPG and then using these sanitised
names to copy and paste to the gip downloaded mp4 files, embellishing the
8 digit date code with the # prefix to unambiguously differentiate them
from off-air recordings (either source could end up as an mkv file).

I still schedule Kaffeine to record the SD broadcasts. This is mainly to
remind me when a programme becomes available for download rather than as
a backup for programmes that the Beeb don't allow to be downloaded from
the iplayer server. However, I no longer bother renaming these files
unless they represent the only version made available by the Beeb. In
these cases, it's usually a movie so only in need of the 8 digit
broadcast date code to round off the file name.

Anyway, sorry to ramble on at such length but I thought this description
of my solution to the lack of xml sources would help others to work
around the problem until a better solution turns up.


[1] This doesn't work with most or all of CBBC's programmes - you need
to click on the iplayer icon to gain such access to an episode's pid. If,
like me, you leave your browser permanently open on each day's page,
you'll have to hit the refresh button (F5) to magic up an absent iplayer
icon after the scheduled start time of the programme in question.

This is a minor nuisance for the "Horrible Histories" episodes that go
out late afternoon/early evening which I'm collecting since it means I
can't tag the pid onto the end of the programme name entry in my PID List
document until after the start of the broadcast. Ditto for the "Shaun The
Sheep" episodes - I'm only missing episode 26 of "Dennis The Menace" and
the episodes for "League of Super Evil" go out at silly O' Clock in the
morning anyway. :-)

--
Johnny B Good
  #7  
Old April 30th 17, 08:33 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,505
Default What news of the metadata?

Why would they do this, it makes no sense whatsoever.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Pete Forman" wrote in message
...
"Brian Gaff" writes:

My wbie I player app is still telling me 404 nott found or no data
available. Have they put up any indication of what they are doing at
the Beeb, they must surely realise that disabled users use this data?


The XML, RDF and ICS feeds of metadata have been permanently removed by
the BBC. I use get_iplayer and that is being adapted to use the JSON
feed instead. Before I started with get_iplayer I wrote a parser to
scrape programme information from the HTML, I might dust that down.

Looking at raw feeds in a browser for, e.g. News Quiz on Radio 4,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08n4lkl.xml displays the BBC
announcement. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08n4lkl.json has
programme metadata.


Here is the BBC announcement:

Maintenance mode

From April 18, 2017, the BBC is no longer able to offer XML, RDF and
iCalendar (.ics) views of programme metadata from this location.

Work is underway in some areas of the BBC with a view to providing a
durable successor to the decommissioned data views, and when the shape
of this work is known, suitable communications will be put in place to
direct the wider technology community towards that successor.

Until that time, it is possible to offer JSON views of many metadata
aggregations from 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes', but these views
cannot, unfortunately, include those of TV channel and radio station
schedules, or A-Z or genre and format listings for a channel or station.

The remaining JSON feeds will remain in operation until May 1, 2018.

To expend new development effort on maintaining the decommissioned views
would significantly threaten the future existence of the BBC's
responsive web offering for programme websites. This includes the
responsive web views of schedules for all of the BBC's broadcast
services (listed at http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes#services), which
continue to be available.

Additionally - and this won't concern all users of data views, but may
need some clarity - we would like to point out that no provision of
metadata feeds from the BBC constitutes an implicit or explicit licence
to download rights-controlled digital media content for indefinite
retention by the downloader.

The Charter under which the BBC operates has, for many years, required
it to commission a proportion of its content from commercial suppliers.
Additionally, it engages independent performers and other contributors
to certain programmes (including those produced by the BBC itself),
according to commercial terms. All of the resulting agreements set
limitations on the availability of the programmes online. It is not
possible for the BBC to selectively ignore or to abrogate these
obligations.


--
Pete Forman
https://payg-petef.rhcloud.com



  #8  
Old April 30th 17, 08:40 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,138
Default What news of the metadata?

In article ,
Johnny B Good wrote:


Since I was previously having to rename the off-air freeview recordings
anyway (the EPG derived names Kaffeine was using didn't quite cut it for
me), I decided to use Kate (a basic Linux word processor) to produce a
simple list of programme names, copied and pasted (and edited with
episode numbers and an 8 digit date coded #yyyymmdd) from the BBC TV
schedules pages from where I could also link to the programme's details
to copy and paste the pid shown in the url [1] onto the end of the
programme name in my PID List document.


FWIW some time ago I wrote a simple 'gipper' program that will read a
textfile list of pids and have gip fetch them in order.

I'm not clear at present on one point because I've been busy with the R3
flac trial. Is there still a way for the current gip to get and add the
programme name?

"The Good Old Days" last Friday was fetched and named. But two R4 programs
from Thursday (Inside Science) and Friday (More or less) only had the pid
twice in their files names. Not sure why the difference, although the
fetching modes were different.

Jim

--
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Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #9  
Old April 30th 17, 08:43 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,505
Default What news of the metadata?

No change there then.
So is there an easy way to do the following.
Select a channel. see a list of all programs on that feed now.
Select a program from that list. select a way to watch, ie AD on, then
select play after saying yes to tv licensing.
If its there its not obvious clutter up with more programs you might like
and all sorts of other links which add nothing to the aid off actually
watching it. I used to use header navigation on the main play page to go to
ways to watch and tools, select watch with AD then I was placed at the top
of the media player with the play button just below it to cursor to, now
every link seems to take me to top of the pages with no obvious page like I
was used to. Its obviously still all possible but is seemingly not so easy
for non mouse users. We get used to a layout and its stupid changing for
changes sake in my view.
They don't care about the viewer, just keeping their web makers in a steady
job.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Pete Forman" wrote in message
...
Here is the BBC announcement:

Maintenance mode

From April 18, 2017, the BBC is no longer able to offer XML, RDF and
iCalendar (.ics) views of programme metadata from this location.

Work is underway in some areas of the BBC with a view to providing a
durable successor to the decommissioned data views, and when the shape
of this work is known, suitable communications will be put in place to
direct the wider technology community towards that successor.

Until that time, it is possible to offer JSON views of many metadata
aggregations from 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes', but these views
cannot, unfortunately, include those of TV channel and radio station
schedules, or A-Z or genre and format listings for a channel or station.

The remaining JSON feeds will remain in operation until May 1, 2018.


Why did the BBC manage this so spectacularly badly? They should have
delayed decommissioning XML, RDF and ICS until the JSON replacement or any
successor was working properly - first rule of project management, don't
pull the plug on the old until the new is working.

I do wonder how long JSON or the successor to the decommissioned data view
will last before they are also removed, again without a replacement in
place first.

Am I cynical? No, I've seen cock-ups like this so many times.



 




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