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Today's puzzle



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 14th 17, 08:39 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jeff Layman[_2_]
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Posts: 652
Default Today's puzzle

I have an old, but perfectly usable, 37" Panasonic LED TV. It happily
displays full HD (1080i/p), but only has an SD tuner. With so much being
transmitted on HD channels, I thought it time to get an HD box for it.
Fortuitously, I was in John Lewis today, and decided to browse round the
TV dept. In one area they had the "customer returns", and I spotted a
Manhattan Plaza HD T2 box, with "Customer cannot use" written on it. It
was reduced to £30! Now I've read some reviews where some pickle-heads
give the box one star because it wouldn't work with their satellite
dish! And for other equally weird reasons. Now JL returned stuff is
normally pretty good value, and you can always return it for a full
refund, so I thought I'd chance it. When I opened the packaging, I found
the box had never been used. The remote's batteries were still in a
sealed pack, as was the included HDMI cable. Also, the initial setup
came up when I connected it by HDMI to the TV, so it was unused.

The initial setup asked if I wanted a 16:9 or 4:3 display, auto or
selected, and 576, 720p or 1080i/p resolution. Those were the only
options. I selected 16:9, auto, and 1080p. It then set about
autotuning, and after a few minutes (it is a rather slow box) BBC1
appeared on Channel 1. Perfect. Then I changed to HD on 101.
Immediately the picture changed - narrow black bars at the sides, and
overscan top and bottom, so part of the picture was missing. Changing
the picture setup to 576 whilst still on 101 solved the format problem,
but of course there was now no HD display, only SD. At 720p, the format
was as wrong as it had been with 1080p.

I went through the picture setup menu again, but couldn't get the format
right in HD. I went through the Panasonic's picture setup menu too, but
there was nothing of help there. On pressing the Panasonic's info
button, it informed me the picture was 1080p, and the aspect ratio was
14:9. But the Manhattan did not have an option for 14:9 display! So was
the box faulty?

After half an hour looking through both manuals without finding the
solution I suddenly had an idea. A second later I had the solution and
the HD picture was now correctly displayed. Scroll down for the answer.


















The Panasonic has an "Aspect" button on the remote (there is no "aspect"
adjustment within the picture menu). When I pressed it, the display box
showed the selection wasn't 16:9 or 4:3 - it was 14:9! As soon as I
changed it to 16:9, the HD picture became normal. Why it was on 14:9 I
have no idea.

--

Jeff
  #2  
Old July 14th 17, 09:30 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,135
Default Today's puzzle

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
news
After half an hour looking through both manuals without finding the
solution I suddenly had an idea. A second later I had the solution and the
HD picture was now correctly displayed. Scroll down for the answer.

























































The Panasonic has an "Aspect" button on the remote (there is no "aspect"
adjustment within the picture menu). When I pressed it, the display box
showed the selection wasn't 16:9 or 4:3 - it was 14:9! As soon as I
changed it to 16:9, the HD picture became normal. Why it was on 14:9 I
have no idea.


(I've preserved the spoiler space!)

I should have worked that one out (but I didn't) because I used to have a
Panasonic CRT TV and I was very used to having to manually switch between
4:3 for analogue TV and 16:9 for the SCART input from my OnDigital DVB-T
box, because that box didn't set the relevant pin on the SCART to indicate
"this is a widescreen programme". I'd forgotten that there was a third
setting 14:9 for that abomination of the changeover period: 14:9, which I
presume was a slightly zoomed-out version of the 16:9 original (as would be
transmitted on digital) with all the height but the extreme edges chopped
off, so you got a little bit more picture width than with 4:3.

  #3  
Old July 14th 17, 09:42 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jeff Layman[_2_]
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Posts: 652
Default Today's puzzle

On 14/07/17 22:30, NY wrote:
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
news
After half an hour looking through both manuals without finding the
solution I suddenly had an idea. A second later I had the solution and the
HD picture was now correctly displayed. Scroll down for the answer.

























































The Panasonic has an "Aspect" button on the remote (there is no "aspect"
adjustment within the picture menu). When I pressed it, the display box
showed the selection wasn't 16:9 or 4:3 - it was 14:9! As soon as I
changed it to 16:9, the HD picture became normal. Why it was on 14:9 I
have no idea.


(I've preserved the spoiler space!)

I should have worked that one out (but I didn't) because I used to have a
Panasonic CRT TV and I was very used to having to manually switch between
4:3 for analogue TV and 16:9 for the SCART input from my OnDigital DVB-T
box, because that box didn't set the relevant pin on the SCART to indicate
"this is a widescreen programme". I'd forgotten that there was a third
setting 14:9 for that abomination of the changeover period: 14:9, which I
presume was a slightly zoomed-out version of the 16:9 original (as would be
transmitted on digital) with all the height but the extreme edges chopped
off, so you got a little bit more picture width than with 4:3.


It's easy to forget things when you don't use them! This was the "spare"
TV which I'd rarely used in the last 18 months. Also, I'd hardly ever
had need to use the "aspect" button (only for the odd old programme in
4:3 which wasn't picked up by "auto"), so had forgotten about it entirely.


--

Jeff
  #4  
Old July 15th 17, 09:10 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,755
Default Today's puzzle

Is not this what happens when two sets of designers in probably different
countries adopt logic which is totally illogical to the other so to speak.


Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
news
I have an old, but perfectly usable, 37" Panasonic LED TV. It happily
displays full HD (1080i/p), but only has an SD tuner. With so much being
transmitted on HD channels, I thought it time to get an HD box for it.
Fortuitously, I was in John Lewis today, and decided to browse round the TV
dept. In one area they had the "customer returns", and I spotted a
Manhattan Plaza HD T2 box, with "Customer cannot use" written on it. It was
reduced to 30! Now I've read some reviews where some pickle-heads give the
box one star because it wouldn't work with their satellite dish! And for
other equally weird reasons. Now JL returned stuff is normally pretty good
value, and you can always return it for a full refund, so I thought I'd
chance it. When I opened the packaging, I found the box had never been
used. The remote's batteries were still in a sealed pack, as was the
included HDMI cable. Also, the initial setup came up when I connected it by
HDMI to the TV, so it was unused.

The initial setup asked if I wanted a 16:9 or 4:3 display, auto or
selected, and 576, 720p or 1080i/p resolution. Those were the only
options. I selected 16:9, auto, and 1080p. It then set about autotuning,
and after a few minutes (it is a rather slow box) BBC1 appeared on Channel
1. Perfect. Then I changed to HD on 101. Immediately the picture
changed - narrow black bars at the sides, and overscan top and bottom, so
part of the picture was missing. Changing the picture setup to 576 whilst
still on 101 solved the format problem, but of course there was now no HD
display, only SD. At 720p, the format was as wrong as it had been with
1080p.

I went through the picture setup menu again, but couldn't get the format
right in HD. I went through the Panasonic's picture setup menu too, but
there was nothing of help there. On pressing the Panasonic's info button,
it informed me the picture was 1080p, and the aspect ratio was 14:9. But
the Manhattan did not have an option for 14:9 display! So was the box
faulty?

After half an hour looking through both manuals without finding the
solution I suddenly had an idea. A second later I had the solution and the
HD picture was now correctly displayed. Scroll down for the answer.


















The Panasonic has an "Aspect" button on the remote (there is no "aspect"
adjustment within the picture menu). When I pressed it, the display box
showed the selection wasn't 16:9 or 4:3 - it was 14:9! As soon as I
changed it to 16:9, the HD picture became normal. Why it was on 14:9 I
have no idea.

--

Jeff



  #5  
Old July 15th 17, 09:26 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jeff Layman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 652
Default Today's puzzle

I don't think so. This is purely a result of the Panasonic TV being old
enough to have a 14:9 option for the display. But, as I mentioned, why
this aspect was set for that particular HDMI input I have no idea. I had
been using it with an HD PVR set to 16:9, and the picture from that on
the TV was perfect in SD and HD.

There is something in this HD box which may be of interest to you, and
that is Audio Description. The manual has this info:

"Some programmes have an extra soundtrack to tell people who are
blind or partially sighted what is happening on screen. Channels
with this audio description available show the "AD" symbol in the
information bar (NB I am not sure what use this is to those who need to
use AD in the first place!!!).

To turn on audio description, press the AD button on the remote. If audio
description is available for the current programme, a notification
will be displayed showing “Audio Description On”. If audio
description is not available for the current programme, the
notification will show “Audio Description On but unavailable with
this programme”. When the next programme you watch has audio
description, it will then be heard. To turn audio description off,
press the AD button."

I suppose that at least it gives you a simple method to see if there is
AD available or not on a fairly new HD box.

--

Jeff

On 15/07/17 10:10, Brian Gaff wrote:
Is not this what happens when two sets of designers in probably different
countries adopt logic which is totally illogical to the other so to speak.


Brian


  #6  
Old July 15th 17, 10:05 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,093
Default Today's puzzle

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:39:24 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

Fortuitously, I was in John Lewis today, and decided to browse round the
TV dept. In one area they had the "customer returns", and I spotted a
Manhattan Plaza HD T2 box, with "Customer cannot use" written on it. It
was reduced to 30! Now I've read some reviews where some pickle-heads
give the box one star because it wouldn't work with their satellite
dish! And for other equally weird reasons. Now JL returned stuff is
normally pretty good value, and you can always return it for a full
refund, so I thought I'd chance it. When I opened the packaging, I found
the box had never been used. The remote's batteries were still in a
sealed pack, as was the included HDMI cable. Also, the initial setup
came up when I connected it by HDMI to the TV, so it was unused.


I've got the answer - the missing word is "brain". The label should
have read "Customer cannot use brain".

Rod.
  #7  
Old July 15th 17, 10:51 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 474
Default Today's puzzle

On Friday, 14 July 2017 21:39:26 UTC+1, Jeff Layman wrote:
I have an old, but perfectly usable, 37" Panasonic LED TV. It happily
displays full HD (1080i/p), but only has an SD tuner. With so much being
transmitted on HD channels, I thought it time to get an HD box for it.
Fortuitously, I was in John Lewis today, and decided to browse round the
TV dept. In one area they had the "customer returns", and I spotted a
Manhattan Plaza HD T2 box, with "Customer cannot use" written on it. It
was reduced to £30! Now I've read some reviews where some pickle-heads
give the box one star because it wouldn't work with their satellite
dish! And for other equally weird reasons. Now JL returned stuff is
normally pretty good value, and you can always return it for a full
refund, so I thought I'd chance it. When I opened the packaging, I found
the box had never been used. The remote's batteries were still in a
sealed pack, as was the included HDMI cable. Also, the initial setup
came up when I connected it by HDMI to the TV, so it was unused.

The initial setup asked if I wanted a 16:9 or 4:3 display, auto or
selected, and 576, 720p or 1080i/p resolution. Those were the only
options. I selected 16:9, auto, and 1080p. It then set about
autotuning, and after a few minutes (it is a rather slow box) BBC1
appeared on Channel 1. Perfect. Then I changed to HD on 101.
Immediately the picture changed - narrow black bars at the sides, and
overscan top and bottom, so part of the picture was missing. Changing
the picture setup to 576 whilst still on 101 solved the format problem,
but of course there was now no HD display, only SD. At 720p, the format
was as wrong as it had been with 1080p.

I went through the picture setup menu again, but couldn't get the format
right in HD. I went through the Panasonic's picture setup menu too, but
there was nothing of help there. On pressing the Panasonic's info
button, it informed me the picture was 1080p, and the aspect ratio was
14:9. But the Manhattan did not have an option for 14:9 display! So was
the box faulty?

After half an hour looking through both manuals without finding the
solution I suddenly had an idea. A second later I had the solution and
the HD picture was now correctly displayed. Scroll down for the answer.


















The Panasonic has an "Aspect" button on the remote (there is no "aspect"
adjustment within the picture menu). When I pressed it, the display box
showed the selection wasn't 16:9 or 4:3 - it was 14:9! As soon as I
changed it to 16:9, the HD picture became normal. Why it was on 14:9 I
have no idea.

--

Jeff


Should be 1080i or auto for the resolution.

Many TV's / boxes will adopt 14:9 for 4:3 transmissions as this only crops a little off the top and bottom and reduces the size of the side bars.

A Philips set I bought in 2009 would not do anything else even if commanded.. Whilst the cropping was hardly an issue on normal programs it cut off the ticker at the bottom on BBC News, Sky News, CNN, Bloomberg and was a PITA..

Philips sent two updates and then declared it was correct operation. I sent them (and Richer Sounds where I bought it) a photo their TV and an LG side by side with the same test card. RS volunteered to refund my money and stopped stocking Philips' TV's for over two years.
  #8  
Old July 15th 17, 12:58 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jeff Layman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 652
Default Today's puzzle

On 15/07/17 11:04, Martin wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:26:43 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:


I suppose that at least it gives you a simple method to see if there is
AD available or not on a fairly new HD box.


It's the lack of AD on some programmes that Brian frequently complains about.


That's true, but I also thought he was concerned that his quite old box
was SD only and was becoming outdated. The Plaza HD T2 is only a few
years old and its software might still be being updated (I haven't
checked yet).

--

Jeff
  #9  
Old July 15th 17, 02:51 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Graham C
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Posts: 168
Default Today's puzzle

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:39:24 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:



The Panasonic has an "Aspect" button on the remote


Reminds me of a DVD player bought a long time ago. After some nine
months the picture went one day whilst watching something. Sound was
OK. Meter proved there was 'something variable' coming out of the
SCART during play, but nothing on the TV.

Took it back to Richer Sounds under warranty. Their guy smiled and
said he'll fix it in seconds.

He did - by pressing the P-scan / I-scan button which was right next
to 'fast forward' or something like that. He also complained about
the manufacturer for designing something stupid.

A bit akin to having a 110/240 selector switch adjacent to the power
on/off switch.

GrahamC

---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #10  
Old July 15th 17, 07:57 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,135
Default Today's puzzle

"Martin" wrote in message
...
It's the lack of AD on some programmes that Brian frequently complains
about.


I'm surprised that common PC software for playing MPEG/MP4 files, such as
VLC and Windows Media Player, doesn't have an option to play both programme
sound and AD simultaneously, as a blind person would need to hear both the
dialogue and the description of the action. You can play one track or the
other in VLC, but not both.

 




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