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iPlayer buffering - VM



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 22nd 17, 11:43 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default iPlayer buffering - VM

At the moment we are suffering from repeated buffering on iPlayer.

This happens on our VM Tivo box, and also on the Humax FreeSat box.

We should have enough bandwidth on the Internet connection; a reliable 160
Mb/sec+ is reported by various test tools.
Although the Tivo seems to have its own Internet connection I can't see
that it should be that much slower; anyway this is happening on the Humax
box as well.

Two obvious possibilities:

(1) iPlayer itself just doesn't have the streaming capacity

(2) VM are for some reason throttling iPlayer (even though in one instance
it is running on their kit)

Is anyone else having similar problems either with iPlayer or another
provider?

Oh, I suppose a third option is that both the Tivo and the Humax don't
have the processor power to run iPlayer but again this doesn't seem that
likely. I suppose I need to test with a PC; however the issue may be the
size of the buffer used to pre-fetch the content which may in turn be
different in the PC software and in the bespoke software on the
proprietary hardware.

Cheers


Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
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  #2  
Old October 22nd 17, 12:22 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,901
Default iPlayer buffering - VM

Its I player. I've reported here before that even audio buffers nowadays. at
first I thought it might have been the Amazon Echo or my wifi, but recently
playing bbc radio stations from my directly connected computer drop outs an
even complete disconnection are not at all unusual, but try Smoothe London,
Mushroom FM or most other broadcasters on the web and there is no issue at
all.
If I can stream audio all the way from new Zealand, and the BBC cannot from
the UK there has to be something wrong.

It would make no sense at all for Virgin to buffer content as they know
these things are why many want hi speed low latency links.



My feeling is that when you look at the sheer number of channels of tv and
radio and on demand and live etc, there has to be some serious grunt needed
to satisfy everyone who wants to get on it, and perhaps they just have not
invested enough to keep it going.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"David" wrote in message
...
At the moment we are suffering from repeated buffering on iPlayer.

This happens on our VM Tivo box, and also on the Humax FreeSat box.

We should have enough bandwidth on the Internet connection; a reliable 160
Mb/sec+ is reported by various test tools.
Although the Tivo seems to have its own Internet connection I can't see
that it should be that much slower; anyway this is happening on the Humax
box as well.

Two obvious possibilities:

(1) iPlayer itself just doesn't have the streaming capacity

(2) VM are for some reason throttling iPlayer (even though in one instance
it is running on their kit)

Is anyone else having similar problems either with iPlayer or another
provider?

Oh, I suppose a third option is that both the Tivo and the Humax don't
have the processor power to run iPlayer but again this doesn't seem that
likely. I suppose I need to test with a PC; however the issue may be the
size of the buffer used to pre-fetch the content which may in turn be
different in the PC software and in the bespoke software on the
proprietary hardware.

Cheers


Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



  #3  
Old October 22nd 17, 12:44 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default iPlayer buffering - VM

Looks like getiplayer on a Raspberry Pi may be getting to be worth the
effort.

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 12:22:36 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

Its I player. I've reported here before that even audio buffers
nowadays. at first I thought it might have been the Amazon Echo or my
wifi, but recently playing bbc radio stations from my directly connected
computer drop outs an even complete disconnection are not at all
unusual, but try Smoothe London,
Mushroom FM or most other broadcasters on the web and there is no issue
at all.
If I can stream audio all the way from new Zealand, and the BBC cannot
from
the UK there has to be something wrong.

It would make no sense at all for Virgin to buffer content as they know
these things are why many want hi speed low latency links.



My feeling is that when you look at the sheer number of channels of tv
and radio and on demand and live etc, there has to be some serious grunt
needed to satisfy everyone who wants to get on it, and perhaps they just
have not invested enough to keep it going.

Brian






--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #4  
Old October 22nd 17, 01:44 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Woody[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,781
Default iPlayer buffering - VM


"David" wrote in message
...
At the moment we are suffering from repeated buffering on iPlayer.

This happens on our VM Tivo box, and also on the Humax FreeSat box.

We should have enough bandwidth on the Internet connection; a
reliable 160
Mb/sec+ is reported by various test tools.
Although the Tivo seems to have its own Internet connection I can't
see
that it should be that much slower; anyway this is happening on the
Humax
box as well.

Two obvious possibilities:

(1) iPlayer itself just doesn't have the streaming capacity

(2) VM are for some reason throttling iPlayer (even though in one
instance
it is running on their kit)

Is anyone else having similar problems either with iPlayer or
another
provider?

Oh, I suppose a third option is that both the Tivo and the Humax
don't
have the processor power to run iPlayer but again this doesn't seem
that
likely. I suppose I need to test with a PC; however the issue may be
the
size of the buffer used to pre-fetch the content which may in turn
be
different in the PC software and in the bespoke software on the
proprietary hardware.



Common problem. VM is fast at delivering it to you once it is there,
but despite increasing the download speed the rest of the
infrastructure has not yet caught up with it.

That and contention - which even on your connection could be in excess
of 10:1 or even 20:1.

Oh, and don't forget time of day. Do you get buffering at, say, 7am or
after midnight? The busiest time of any broadband is 16:00 to midnight
weekdays and almost any time at weekends which is why those are the
monitoring periods for throttling.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #5  
Old October 22nd 17, 02:09 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
TonyGamble
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default iPlayer buffering - VM

David,

Our Humax Freesat box failed to run the IPlayer BBC Gunpowder prog last night. It hung.

I swopped to my Amazon Firestick and it ran perfectly.

You'll see a thread I started recently about YouTube and problems with the Humax. These machines are not up to it.

Lash out on a Firestick and you'll have a different experience IMHO anyway.

Tony
  #6  
Old October 22nd 17, 04:17 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Robin[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 457
Default iPlayer buffering - VM

On 22/10/2017 13:44, Woody wrote:

Common problem. VM is fast at delivering it to you once it is there,
but despite increasing the download speed the rest of the
infrastructure has not yet caught up with it.

That and contention - which even on your connection could be in excess
of 10:1 or even 20:1.

Oh, and don't forget time of day. Do you get buffering at, say, 7am or
after midnight? The busiest time of any broadband is 16:00 to midnight
weekdays and almost any time at weekends which is why those are the
monitoring periods for throttling.


It may be common but it ain't universal. With a mere 50 Mbps here we can
take 2 x 720p without buffering at any time of day. And there are many
neighbours using VM.

And I think you may have missed changes to VM's traffic management: now
daily 6pm to 11pm daily for most packages. And they only throttle
*upload* speeds.

https://my.virginmedia.com/traffic-m...hresholds.html




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #7  
Old October 22nd 17, 04:45 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Woody[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,781
Default iPlayer buffering - VM


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2017 13:44, Woody wrote:

Common problem. VM is fast at delivering it to you once it is
there,
but despite increasing the download speed the rest of the
infrastructure has not yet caught up with it.

That and contention - which even on your connection could be in
excess
of 10:1 or even 20:1.

Oh, and don't forget time of day. Do you get buffering at, say, 7am
or
after midnight? The busiest time of any broadband is 16:00 to
midnight
weekdays and almost any time at weekends which is why those are the
monitoring periods for throttling.


It may be common but it ain't universal. With a mere 50 Mbps here we
can take 2 x 720p without buffering at any time of day. And there
are many neighbours using VM.

And I think you may have missed changes to VM's traffic management:
now daily 6pm to 11pm daily for most packages. And they only
throttle *upload* speeds.

https://my.virginmedia.com/traffic-m...hresholds.html





I didn't say I get any buffering. I can use a Roku stick or Firestick
and both work perfectly most of the time.

I didn't know that had changed to 6pm but I was aware it is 11pm at
the other end. As for throttling thresholds, they have made a
substantial difference. I'm on what it seems they now call Super-Fibre
70 and that used to be 3600Mb first level and 4500Mb second level
(accumlated) download before throttling was applied to two different
levels and it was applied for 24hrs.

I wonder if someone has been moaning?


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #8  
Old October 22nd 17, 05:28 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Tweed[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default iPlayer buffering - VM

Woody wrote:

"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2017 13:44, Woody wrote:

Common problem. VM is fast at delivering it to you once it is
there,
but despite increasing the download speed the rest of the
infrastructure has not yet caught up with it.

That and contention - which even on your connection could be in
excess
of 10:1 or even 20:1.

Oh, and don't forget time of day. Do you get buffering at, say, 7am
or
after midnight? The busiest time of any broadband is 16:00 to
midnight
weekdays and almost any time at weekends which is why those are the
monitoring periods for throttling.


It may be common but it ain't universal. With a mere 50 Mbps here we
can take 2 x 720p without buffering at any time of day. And there
are many neighbours using VM.

And I think you may have missed changes to VM's traffic management:
now daily 6pm to 11pm daily for most packages. And they only
throttle *upload* speeds.

https://my.virginmedia.com/traffic-m...hresholds.html





I didn't say I get any buffering. I can use a Roku stick or Firestick
and both work perfectly most of the time.

I didn't know that had changed to 6pm but I was aware it is 11pm at
the other end. As for throttling thresholds, they have made a
substantial difference. I'm on what it seems they now call Super-Fibre
70 and that used to be 3600Mb first level and 4500Mb second level
(accumlated) download before throttling was applied to two different
levels and it was applied for 24hrs.

I wonder if someone has been moaning?



I was under the impression that VM had their own play out infrastructure
for the likes of iPlayer etc, ie the data went from the BBC to VM and then
via a private IP address range to your TiVo. I believe, though I can’t
currently find a reference to it, that these streams use different cable
frequencies to that used by your Internet connection. So effectively TiVo
iPlayer and iPlayer via an Interconnected device are unrelated. The figures
I’ve read are that there is a planned contention ratio of 16:1 for the TiVo
service, so if 17 people on your cable segment are trying to watch
different iPlayer streams it is going to end in tears. I guess more and
more people are using the iPlayer functionality and VM can’t segment the
network fast enough. Sky’s PVR boxes seem to have a Beter solution, in as
much as the local hard disk is used as an enormous buffer, and it won’t let
you play a programme until it has buffered sufficient of the programme to
get you through to the end without pausing (assuming your Internet speed
remains roughly the same throughout).

  #9  
Old October 22nd 17, 06:13 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
TonyGamble
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default iPlayer buffering - VM

But David said he was also having problems with his Humax Freesat box.

That will be nothing to do with any special feed for Tivo.

As I said in my post using exactly the same internet broadband the Humax hung and the Firestick worked flawlessly. Talk to YouTube support and they will be most critical about the software on the Humax.

Yes the Humax could buffer to its hard disk - but their software folk must feel it is not worth the effort to create happy punters.

Tony


  #10  
Old October 22nd 17, 09:52 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David Wade[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default iPlayer buffering - VM

On 22/10/2017 11:43, David wrote:
At the moment we are suffering from repeated buffering on iPlayer.

This happens on our VM Tivo box, and also on the Humax FreeSat box.

We should have enough bandwidth on the Internet connection; a reliable 160
Mb/sec+ is reported by various test tools.
Although the Tivo seems to have its own Internet connection I can't see
that it should be that much slower; anyway this is happening on the Humax
box as well.

Two obvious possibilities:

(1) iPlayer itself just doesn't have the streaming capacity

(2) VM are for some reason throttling iPlayer (even though in one instance
it is running on their kit)

Is anyone else having similar problems either with iPlayer or another
provider?

Oh, I suppose a third option is that both the Tivo and the Humax don't
have the processor power to run iPlayer but again this doesn't seem that
likely. I suppose I need to test with a PC; however the issue may be the
size of the buffer used to pre-fetch the content which may in turn be
different in the PC software and in the bespoke software on the
proprietary hardware.

Cheers


Dave R


Also had some buffering minor on iPlayer on BT Infinity 2. I assumed it
was a BBC issue.

Dave
 




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